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Talk:Cedges/Vindicator (3.5e Prestige Class)

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Level 10 SGT Edit

First off, we need to get as much as possible out of those first 5 levels:

Human barbarian 1/samurai 1/fighter 4/vindicator 4
Attributes: 20/11/14/8/8/8
Strength +4 rage, +4 belt.
Hitpoints: 12 + 49.5 + 20 = 81, 101 raging

Feats: Bastard sword prof (samurai), 1 race+4 levels, +3 fighter

  • Bastard sword prof (samurai)
  • Power Attack
  • Weapon Focus
  • Weapon Specialization
  • 5 left

Attack +10/+5, +17/+12 +10/+10 strength, +18/+13 2d8+12/2d8+12 focus+spec, +20/+15 2d8+14/2d8+14 rage strength
AC = 10 + 8 armor -2 rage = 16

Power attack for 4: +16/+11 for 2d8+22/2d8+22

Pros:

  • Better AOs
  • Better damage at +16/+11: 31/31 vs 36/18
  • more flexible with power attack
  • better armor
  • 1 more feat
  • Only need one magic weapon

Human Barbarian 1/Samurai 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Vindicator 4
Attributes: 20/11/14/8/8/8
Strength +4 rage, +4 belt.
Hitpoints: 12 + 38.5 + 9 + 20 = 79, 99 raging

Feats: 1 race+4 levels, +2 fighter

  • Bastard sword prof (samurai)
  • Two weapon fighting (ranger, light armor only)
  • Oversized two-weapon fighting. Use one-handed weapon in off hand with only light weapon penalty
  • Monkey Grip (normally only applies to main hand, and would give -2 to attack, +4.5 damage, instead we use this to wield a large bastard sword (2d8) as a medium two handed weapon with a -2 penalty. Our exotic weapon proficiency: bastard sword allows us to wield what would be a two-handed bastard sword as a one-handed weapon, and oversized two-weapon fighting lets us wield a one-handed weapon in our off-hand)
  • Weapon focus, bastard sword
  • 4 left

Attack: +10/+5, +19/+14 rage strength, +17/+17/+12 two weapon with "light" offhand, +15/+15/+10 2d8+9/2d8+9/2d8+9 large bastard swords, +16/+16/+11 weapon focus
AC: 10 + 4 armor -2 rage = 12

Pros:

  • 40' instead of 20' move
  • None until much more strength, magic weapon bonuses

Heh, I suck too much at making fighters to even get a decent one at level 6 to start with. Here's how the SGT goes no-matter what:

This doesn't work -Cedges 23:42, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Might actually want to put it on stop of something that doesn't completely suck for the SGT--say, a warblade 5 who uses Stormguard Warrior for damage and Moment of Perfect Mind to counter those nasty will-targeting spells and effects. --Ghostwheel 08:55, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
Wow. That class is much more like what the fighter should have been. I don't think he'd going to need perfect mind once he gets into the vindicator class. I like the exercise to change feats thing. When I played a strong hero in a d20 modern campaign he'd spend lots of time exercising and working out, and it just annoyed everyone else playing and the DM, because there was no game reason for him to be doing so. -Cedges 22:32, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Try 2:

Warblade 5/Vindicator 5

With stormguard warrior, we want to get as many attacks in one round as possible, and as many damage rolls as possible (criticals help here), to square the damage from combat rhythm.

Starting attributes: 18/10/14/9/8/8

Feats

  • (1) Combat Expertise
  • (race) Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
  • (3) Ironheart Aura
  • (5 bonus) Stone Power
  • (6) Stormguard Warrior
  • (9) Improved Critical (Scimitar) (Or something else, this can be gotten for 16k at higher levels from a scabbard of keen edges)

Maneuvers:

  • 1st (3) Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind, Charging Minotaur
  • 2nd (2) Wall of Blades (Counter), Action before Thought (concentration as reflex)
  • 3rd (1) Bonecrusher (Strike 4d6 damage, +10 to critical permanently)

Stances:

  • 1st: Punishing Stance (+1d6 damage, -2 AC),
  • 2nd: Blood in the Water (1st) (+1 attack, damage each critical)

We get to ready 4 maneuvers, so we usually take Bone Crusher, Charging Minotaur, Wall of Blades, and Action before Thought.

Equipment: +1 flaming scimitar (8315), +3 Chain Mail (9300), +3 Steel Shield (9170), belt of giant strength +4 (16000), Amulet of natural armor +1 (2000), Gloves of dexterity +1 (4000)

Attributes: 24/10/14/9/8/8
HP: 85
Attacks: +10/+5, +17/+12 (strength), +20/+14 (weapon focus, +1).
AC: 10 + 1 + 8 + 5 + 1 = 25.

General tactics: Throw up Blood in the Water, and use combat expertise and Stone Power. Use Stormguard Warrior to make melee touch attacks like crazy, doing no damage, but wracking up criticals (which only help Blood in the Water). The attacks are +10/+4 touch.

Don't go for Stone Power or Combat Expertise (not that you qualify for the second one). If you need to get close, pick up a tower shield and use it for full cover until you're close and then throw it away. Improved TWF with double kukris will get you another two attacks, which gives you more opportunities for Blood in the Water to take effect, and allow you to "charge up" for one round with Stormguard Warrior, dealing +20 damage with every attack the next round. Or pick up Shield Bash if you want to keep the shield, and use it as an offhand weapon for the same combo (hitting with it as an offhand attack to proc Stormguard Warrior. Remember that the best defense is a great offense--you should be bringing down the fire giant without too many problems around 50% of the time. Use a potion of fly to go after the dragon and use readied charges to catch it if it does fly-bys. Close-Quarters Fighting (Complete Warrior) will stop the bebilith from grappling you, which will spell a win. How are you automatically resisting the mind flayers' mind blasts? How are you winning against the necromancer? (Unless it's a cleric one, and then the PrC might actually do something.) Trolls shouldn't be a problem whatsoever--if they're a problem, you're doing something wrong. Hit them hard, knock them to unconsciousness easily, and choke them to death. Stop caring so much about survivability--kill them before they can kill you, and you'll win a hell of a lot more often. If you do decide to go with a single weapon, go with a falchion or greatsword. And check out Emerald Razor - that with full power attack means +20 damage, which will multiply on a crit (which is fairly often with Improved Crit + Falchion for 2d4+20 (power attack) +10 (str) +1 (magic) x2 + 1d6 or 75.5 damage on average on a crit). --Ghostwheel 22:55, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
  • A hallway filled with magical runes. Loss
  • 0-5% A Fire Giant. Close on the giant using cover and taunts. Bull-rush in for the final close. Almost die to 38 damage when he 5 foots and full-rounds with greatsword, use wall of blades to reduce this by about 10 to about 28. 5 foot back under, recharge, ten temp hitpoints, +5 ac full round touch, Hit 1.8 times with half a crit. Get hit for 19 damage (9 after temporary). Hit with bonecrusher at +11.5 (half the time) for (5d6+7+9+crits) averaging about 19 damage, and losing only 9 more in next round, or at +21 (all the time) for 38, and losing ~28 in next round, either way we trade hitpoints one for one with the fire giant and DIE, even with our increasing attack bonuses from blood in the water. Almost certain loss.
  • Draw A Young Blue Dragon. Draw. Our 15 concentration with action before thought beats the breath weapon's save DC 90% of the time, and then we reduce it by 10 temporary hitpoints. Pull out a composite longbow and shoot the thing till it runs away.
  • 0-10% A Bebilith. Pinned. Ouch. Die.
  • Draw A Vrock. Draw. Vrock is forced to run away.
  • 99-100% A tag team of Mind Flayers. Win.
  • 50-90% An Evil Necromancer. Usually win.
  • 0-50% 6 Trolls. Probable loss. It just takes too long to kill them all with only 1d6 of fire damage, and the attrition catches up with us.
  • 0-5% 12 Shadows. Loss

This isn't that great, winning 30-40% of fights. The AC can't actually be cranked high enough to stand in front of a giant unharmed, building up attack bonuses that will destroy it while continuing to fight on the defensive. It needs another 10 AC, 3 of which could come from more dexterity or from full plate. -Cedges 22:32, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

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