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Talk:Warlock, Variant (3.5e Class)

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Balance Edit

While the regular warlock is rogue-level, I think this class counts as wizard-level. Thoughts? --Ghostwheel 18:56, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

I had thought this wiki considered SRD warlocks as fighter-level. To be honest, reviewing this before I posted it, I had wondered if it crossed into wizard-level. I have no qualms changing the balance point.--Tavis McCricket 19:01, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
While I have no idea what a SRD Warlock is, we do consider the WotC one (which isn't even OGL to the best of my knowledge) to be fighter level, it's a listed example even. But it's on the high end, and can actually be optimized into rogue with a bit of effort. Haven't looked closely enough at this to make a guess, but if ghost is wondering I'd say you're probably somewhere on the border and could go either way depending on optimization. - TarkisFlux 19:35, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
My bad on the SRD/WotC confusion. Thanks for fixing the table.--Tavis McCricket 19:54, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Fey Heritage vs. Fiendish Heritage? Edit

It had been suggested to me that at 1st level, the warlock picks whether or not he is of fey heritage, or fiendish. The choice wouldn't dictate alignment, just open up a few extra abilties. The idea appealed to me initially, but in addition to drawing a blank on ideas (good ones, at least), this incarnation of the warlock seems pretty strong already.

Any thoughts?--Tavis McCricket 13:43, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Aside from the inevitable bonus feat...at 3rd level, fey warlocks get a +10 luck bonus to speed. At 8th level, they get a +1 bonus to the save DCs of mind-affecting invocations. At 13th level, they get a +1 DC bonus to all invocations that stacks with the 8th level one. Fiendish warlocks get +1 DR, then half their Charisma bonus as vile damage to their Eldritch Blast and damage-dealing invocations, then the ability to make all damage count as vile in addition to its other types. Something like that. - Viatos 18:54, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
The abundance of vile damage (while cool and flavorful) would strongly imply that said warlock is evil (can good aligned players deal vile damage?. I'd hate to tie alignment to heritage, lest everyone play a Chaotic Neutral warlock to best leverage the perks they want.--Tavis McCricket 20:41, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to think that for the most part, we've advanced to the point where people who care about alignment will enforce it regardless of rules and people who don't care will ignore it regardless of rules. That said, the Book of Vile Darkness does NOT include dealing vile damage in its extensive list of "evil acts" (which controversially includes the use of negative energy for necromancy and "consorting with fiends", among other lesser sins). The entry for vile damage makes it clear this is a gross violation of body and soul, but also does NOT tag it with a necessary [Evil] descriptor. So this is going to fall into Rule 0 territory for many groups regardless: the game says it's evil, but doesn't say it's [Evil]. If it really bothers you, you could go out of your way to define "persistent damage" or something and give everyone else who blanches at the name a rallying flag. - Viatos 09:40, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
Or make an exception that, because warlocks are [Special], the use of warlock class features and invocations does not risk changing their alignment, although using them to attempt actions contrary to their alignment affects it as usual. - Viatos 09:45, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
Since the use of vile damage probably cannot conclusively be considered an evil act in and of itself, I would not see any problem in a fiend-descended warlock using it. The powers of the fiendish ancestor should definitely be evil in nature, but that doesn't have to reflect in the current user's alignement. Flavor-wise, you could use that to discriminate between the ones born with fiendish traits and the ones who sold their souls in Faustian pacts or something similar. - TG Cid 16:07, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
See here (granted the parallel isn't perfect, but it works) for musings on morality and how it meshes with things like "vile" damage. -- Jota 18:29, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well here is the million GP question: Would separating fiendish from fey simply add features to the class, or would they supersede aspects of the current functionality?--Tavis McCricket 19:12, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

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