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Talk:Swashbuckler (3.5e Class)

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Some Abilities and Concerns Edit

Fencing -- Not An Action is not descriptive. Either say "once per round as a free action", or make it a swift action.

Tie-Down -- it's pretty rare that anyone drops ranks into Escape Artist, so for most people this means they will always be entangled. Why can't it be opposed attack rolls instead? Alternatively, make it only work if you have the Edge on your opponent.

Stylish Hat -- need more rules for throwing the hat. How far do you have to throw it? Because if you can throw it in the air then just catch it again that's pretty ridiculous.

I'm Not Left handed -- it was already "Not An Action", how does making it an Attack of Opportunity help at all? Must make this one more clear.

Power Slide -- either write the ability out, or link it.

Constant Cover -- with everything else that reduces or eliminates combat damage at this point in a swashbuckler's life, this is getting to be ridiculous overkill.

Evasion -- again, write it out.

Close Quarters Fighting -- what this means is not quite clear.

Distraction -- beware, for this is a pure number booster and I question if it's needed. I'd remove the flanking bit and keep the Edge bit.

Ridiculous Attire -- all foes? How about all foes that can see them?

I Had Three Knives -- I have no idea what this is or how to use it or how often it can be used. Clarification needed.

Witty Repartee -- damage bonuses are already huge from Blitz, Power Attack, and whatnot. Now we get to add an additional +30 damage for free? That does not sound good to me.

Legendary Booty -- what kind of action is this? This also doesn't really have a place in a D&D game where there are such things as aberrations and animals that you fight regularly.

Catch Me If You Can -- what is a "partial action"?

Menacing Visage -- how often must this save be made? Remember that these conditions stack, so it's important!

En Garde! -- that's a weird and annoying check to remember. This should be rewritten to just use the Edge, and not grant it.

Bladestorm -- you'll never make a full attack again. You just use this all the time, especially when there's only one adjacent opponent. You now get your dexterity modifier in attacks against them. Totally ridiculous.


It's all these issues above which are why I never transcribed this class over here -- there's just so much that needs to be addressed. Also, you need to read this one over for grammar. There's lots of places where simple stuff like the start of a sentence is not capitalized. Surgo 20:17, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Scientific observation had led me to conclude that "Not An Action" is Koumei's way of saying "Free Action". A Partial Action is either a standard or a move action, but not a full action. Fencing using AoO's means they're all free actions...but you only get as many tries as you have Attack of Opportunities. "I Had Three Knives" is essentially a class ability to whip out a knife at any time, even when it would be improbable to do so, sort of like how in some Anime, some people have a backup plan ready even when it would be improbable that they had it in place. I have to go, so I'll look into what you said. You are right about a lot of this, from what I see... --Genowhirl 20:27, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
A lot of that is what I guessed, but I shouldn't have to guess and neither should anyone else who reads it. It should be clear from the get-go. Surgo 20:28, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, I wasn't taking time to READ it when I was putting it up. I was copying, pasting, and formatting. But when I get home tonight, I'll smooth out what I can, if someone doesn't do it before then. --Genowhirl 20:30, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
I can correct the grammar and missing capitalization, but the other issues are going to have to be addressed by you I'm afraid. Surgo 20:31, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough. Did a little thinking...Looks like Stylish Hat should be a move action. So the Swashbuckler can throw the hat and then attack. Bladestorm should be once a minute, I think. The bonus damage from "Your opponent is me" could go down. Legendary Booty should keep the effect. The rest, I'll look at when my brain's functioning right. --Genowhirl 02:32, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Koumei here. I'll address some points. Keep in mind I just jotted the whole thing up and consider it "complete until someone has an issue that needs addressing".
-Not an Action is actually an action type already. But yeah, it should just be an Immediate action.
-I can live with making Tie-Down opposed attack rolls.
-Stylish Hat: making it a Move action would mean it doesn't matter if they toss it in the air and catch it again. Or it could be Swift but throwing it 30' away. I don't mind either way.
-Not Left Handed: the idea is that before it was 1/round, now you gain extra uses equal to AoO. Possibly could be worded more clearly.
-Writing abilities out: I'll leave that up to Genowhirl here, but in theory I should do it when I type things up on the Den. Pity I won't.
-Constant Cover: ignoring that I accidentally mixed the fractional thing up with Concealment, you're probably right. Maybe just grant Soft Cover against anyone they have the Edge against?
-CQF: it seems simple enough to me. "People can still hurt you in a grapple, constrict you etc. However you are not flat-footed to others, they are flat to you, and you can move around, use two-handed weapons etc."
-Distraction: sure. Whenever she strikes a foe, she is considered to have the Edge against them until they strike her.
-Ridiculous Attire: sure. "All foes that can see them".
-May as well remove "I had three knives". I only put it there for a Carcer reference. Or it could be made into a generic "You can hide any weapon (that you can wield) on your body in such a way that it can only be found with a very thorough search."
-Witty Reparte: I'm actually more in favour of removing or tuning down "Your Opponent is Me!" It's probably a bit much anyway, especially considering that's 6/2 levels, or "maximised Sneak Attack".
-Legendary Booty: I want to leave it in >:( And it is meant to be not an action: if they see her, they need to save against it.
-Partial Actions totally exist. That one is not my fault. It's "Move or Standard action - your choice!"
-Menacing Visage: crap, thanks for pointing that out. It should instead read "Any person only needs to attempt this save once per 24 hours. Whether they succeed or fail the save they cannot be affected again in the meantime."
-En Guarde: I see what you mean there, it would be annoying. Sure. "Whenever she strikes someone who she has the Edge Against, they drop whatever is in their hands."
-Bladestorm: this looks really powerful now that I look at it. I don't know what I was thinking. My suggestion is to outright replace this with "The Immortal Dread Pirate Lives On!" (removing "Enjoy your capstone"). Then for level 20 grant "Riches Untold (Ex): At level 20 the Swashbuckler gets so rich that she wins the game." - Koumei
Thanks for coming and replying. I understand what it meant, I just think "partial action" is a 3.0 thing, I just changed it to say "move action". You can perform a move action as a standard action anyway so yeah. Legendary Booty is probably fine, people will just have to accept that things can get a little weird in a normal game. Surgo 17:17, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

BAB Edit

Am I to assume the BAB is just glitching, and will return to +20/+15/+10/+5? Or are we making up unique BAB progressions now? If the latter, can you explain why? --The Badger 06:08, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

This class is a Tome class and is designed to use the Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook)/Advanced Combat#Bonus Attacks and BAB rules, and has just written them in here. While I use those rules in my own games, I'm not sure it's a good call for the standard wiki writeup... - TarkisFlux 07:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
Further explanation: One of the things suggested in the Tomes is that characters game the extra attacks at the same time, but the extras attacks don't have a penalty more than -5. Think about it--by the time you get your third and fourth attacks as a melee-type class, your chances of hitting something with them are...extremely low, thanks to that -10 and -15 penalties they suffer from, compared to your first attack. --Genowhirl 15:41, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

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