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Talk:Iaijutsu Master - Unoffical Update (3.5e Prestige Class)

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Update Edit

This is our in-house version 3.5 update to the 3.0 iaijutsu master from Oriental Adventures. The purpose was to create a 3.5 balanced version of the class without losing the general feel of it.

Since the duelist prestige class from the DMG 3.5 is based on the 3.0 iaijutsu master, we decided to use it as the basis for the 3.5 iaijutsu master, as well as use it as a benchmark for game balance.

The notable changes are:

- no more aijitsu focus skill: we felt it was the key to the imbalanced nature of the class, so like the scry skill we decided to toss it and instead are using the improved reaction and precise strike from the duelist class, combined with using the Bluff skill to feint in combat and improve the feinting ability of the class through Improved Feint, and a redone Strike from the Void.

- Swift Strike: our creation, and the only class ability/feat that we know of to give the ability of a fighter type class to do anything as a swift action. This combined with quickdraw, and strike from the void makes up for the lack of the extra surprise round that Strike with No Thought used to give.

We've done comparisons with this between pure fighter, rogue/fighter and fighter/duelist for balance and so far it seems to be pretty balanced. If anyone can come up with any other balance tests please let me know.

We've also done the 10 levels of epic progression as well (identical to the Epic Duelist, but with different bonus feats) which I will be adding when I figure out how. =]

Thanks for uploading it here. If you need help with coding or putting more stuff up, just visit our chat (the "Real-time Chat" link on the sidebar) and I'll be happy to help. Out of curiosity, in-house where? Surgo 04:14, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
In house is in Edmonton, AB. Rai.auge 08:03, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
does swift strike stack with haste? so on a full attack you end up with 3 attacks at the highest? i like this class, but think it needs a pick-me-up. a little more umph wouldnt hurt imho--NameViolation 04:54, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
Each round a character can do one swift action, usually a quickend spell (multispell allows a character to cast multiple quickened spells as a single swift action). Haste adds an extra attack to a full round attack action, so yes they do stack.
The "umph" of the class comes from using it in one of two builds, either a build based on having the initiative and using things like haste effectively gain a monk like flurry of blows, with a fighter BAB all while eliminating the dex bonus to AC of the target and doing fighter like damage (1d10 for a katana). Or a power striker utilizing power attack and doing lots of damage and at epic levels being able to attack an opponent as though they are flat footed every round combined with devastating critical for the save vs. death is a nice touch as well. Not including power attack it will do on average slightly more damage than a fighter or rogue of equivelant level.
Also, the +4 initiative bonus stacks with improved initiative and superior initiative, so having an extra +12 to init, doing six attacks (if hasted with three at a full base attack bonus with) and getting the INT bonus to AC is pretty effective. Rai.auge 08:03, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
Superior Initiative? 03:50, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
Epic feat from the Epic Level Handbook (Or the SRD can't remember the original source). 05:00, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

On Katanas Edit

This. --Ghostwheel 22:27, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Uh, D&D weapon descriptions don't reflect reality in any way shape or form. The weights are wrong, the lengths are mostly wrong, the names of the weapons are mostly wrong, the names of the parts of the weapons are mostly wrong, the methods of wielding them are mostly wrong, and the manufacturing descriptions are mostly wrong. The poster on that forum that claimed to have paid "$20,000" for a weapon that was folded "millions" of times has a very minimal understand of metallurgical practice.
Steel is a composite material that is manufactured by blending multiple materials together which used to be accomplished exclusively through folding techniques which were used around the world for centuries. Modern steel that has never been folded is far superior to ancient folded steel. However folding can also be used to introduce controlled impurities into the metal to change its properties in isolated portions, such as making the majority of the blade more flexible while at the same time hardening the edge. Even the legendary sword crafting families of Japan now start with modern steel and use the folding process only to change the properties of various sections of the blade. Traditionally a European steel sword was folded 8 to 12 times depending on the desired result. A traditional steel katana was folded 10 to 20 times. Folding millions of times would literally take years for one weapon and serve no benefit whatsoever.
The katana would be proportionally equivalent to a European hand and a half or arming sword (weapons that can be used either one or two handed like a katana), both in physical characteristics and use. For a traditional Japanese wielder (5'4" tall) the total length would be around 35", for a taller European wielder (5'8") the total length would be around 39". The blade length of a katana is always a few inches less than an arming sword of the same length, which changes both the balance point as well as the center of percussion. So on a 39" katana the blade length would be around 28" vs. a 32" blade for an arming sword. Both arming swords and katanas are primarily cutting weapons and the techniques for wielding either is very similar owing to the fact that the mechanics of the human body vary little from Europe to Japan. The average weight of either an arming sword or a katana of 39" length is approx 2 1/4 lbs. Not even close to the 6lbs listed in the Oriental Adventures. =d
Katanas, like arming swords or any other cutting weapons are virtually useless against armour. Especially the typical "samurai" armour used in field combat which was design with the specific purpose of neutralizing attacks from swords. Against armour in either Europe or Japan spears, poleaxes, and arrows were the weapons of choice. Cutting doesn't work against armour. Peircing and bludgeoning weapons work because they either find small vulnerabilities in armour, have extremely high psi at their point of impact and can pierce through the armour, or can cause sufficient impact to break bones and cause concussions and organ damage. Lots of people claim to "cut through armour/steel like butter" but you'll be hard pressed to find any video evidence of anyone *actually* doing it.
Properly made katanas are nice weapons, are well balanced and fast to wield, but they do not grant supernatural abilities to cut through anything in their path. And yes they are traditionally folded more than traditional European swords but a single well made sword already takes six months and a dozen artisans to make, it would take decades to manufacture a sword the way most people think they are made. People need to stop getting their information from movies. ("DAMN YOU HIGHLANDER!!" *shakes hist fist*)
Meanwhile back to the game. Having a katana as a d10 is actually a little excessive and is more a reflection of the lore surrounding the katana then reality, it should be a d8 the same as a longsword. But since the game itself is heavily based on myths and legends I don't think giving the "legendary sword" a little extra umph is a bad thing. I really wish someone would correct the weapon weights though...because they are all basically double what they should be.
Dude... it's obviously a joke. Chill... --Ghostwheel 01:12, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
See here (mostly work safe). I'd guess the original that Casper linked to was entirely serious (in as serious as a troll can be), but since then it has obviously become a joke, which is what the reference was meant as. -- Jota 03:09, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Other Updated Oriental Adventures Classes Edit

So I finally got a copy of Complete Warrior and took a look at a few of the Oriental Adventures classes that have been officially updated, no Iaijutsu Master but there is the Weapon Master (kensei) update Kensai among others. And just by pure dumb luck the Kensai class stacks nicely with this homebrew update of the Iaijutsu Master. So if anyone is building an OA themed character, or updating an existing one to 3.5 it's worth taking a look at these two classes.

Also, I'd like to know peoples opinions on this unofficial update. I balanced it against several different prestige classes and class combinations in order to make sure it was in line with other 3.5 materials, so if anyone sees anything that is too unbalancing, please let me know.

Rai.auge 06:25, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

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