Correct the typo in the name. please?Edit

It's supposed to have one 'r', not two. --Genowhirl 06:44, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Much obliged. --Genowhirl 18:59, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
Just FYI, you can do it yourself with 'Move' function, located in the menu bar above. -- Jota 20:33, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Unclear BitsEdit

Is this a regular standard action touch attack? Can I stack that at-will effect on any other touch attack I'm making? Can I stack it on an unarmed strike / slam attack as a regular attack instead of a touch attack? Can I stack it on all of my unarmed strike / slam attacks for the round? - TarkisFlux 02:27, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

I was picturing standard action. Also, that I look at it...Surgo does have a point. A penalty equal to 3 + Cha, maybe? I need to look at the wording for Symbol of Pain. I'll do that when I'm actually functioning. --Genowhirl 03:19, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Power up!Edit

Allright. The first thing that comes to mind is making the effect part of a melee attack. You hit them, they get the pain; this would have the benefit of working with Whirlwind (for whatever that's worth). There's other options: Swift action, scaling value, or both. --Genowhirl 06:36, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think a good start might be getting rid of the save--that would easily let you set up enemies for devastating Save-or-Somethings next round. As it is now, the save kinda sucks, since most cha-focused characters aren't going to be frontliners. --Ghostwheel 06:47, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
It's habit, mostly. Maybe the save for half...Anyway, I know Surgo has Views on effects happening with no save (see: The Witch). --Genowhirl 06:49, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
I care about the Witch's no-save effects because they are essentially save or dies. Getting a -3 penalty to your saves really sucks, but it doesn't kill you (immediately). Surgo 06:51, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
Sweet. So, what would get this worth taking. No Save and...What? Attack action? Swift? Keep it as a standard? --Genowhirl 07:07, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
I noticed you haven't specified what type of penalty the penalty is, which brings up stacking concerns, especially if its useable as an attack action. I think if you intend that there be no save, a swift or standard is most appropriate, probably as a standard since this could otherwise be viewed as a simple +3 to your DCs. On the other hand, it is a [Fiend] feat, so I could understand a swift action if you think a standard takes it too far out of line from other fiendish feats. One other thing, if it's a touch attack with no save, having it as an attack option (which is at least a standard action) seems sort of redundant (aside from AoOs) if it can't stack. -- Jota 15:51, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know what balance level you're going for, so it's sorta impossible to give advice as to what you should do. But what I would do with this is make it a swift action to activate for the round, and then make it apply to all attack actions for the round without save. They can deliver this penalty as touch attacks if they want, but they don't do any damage or anything else for the round unless they pair it with a second touch effect (spell, power, whatever). The penalty should only be applied after you finish your turn though, so if you deliver it with another touch attack they don't suffer the penalties on any save they get against the other effect. They can also stack it on any other slam / natural attack with a regular attack roll to deal damage in addition the the penalty.
Still, I don't know your goals, so that might not work. Penalty type is more clear cut though, and slightly worrisome. You're probably going to want a really really common, non-stacking type for the penalty so it doesn't get out of hand, since you can't assume that people don't ignore bullshit bonuses per tome stuff. - TarkisFlux 20:39, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

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